Norfolk Broads Community Forum Speakers Corner UK.


Innershed Website Design Services

Welcome to the Bulletin and Message Board for the East of England.
A Community Service from WWW.NORFOLKBROADS.COM.
"The East of England's Business Directory"

Forum

Thread - BSS certificate

Return to: All forums, Private Bill

Reply to topic
Page: 1, 2

You're not logged in - to log in, click here. To register a forum account, click here. View our Terms of Use Policy.

NEW  You can now attach images to your posts. They will also be inserted into our gallery!

Posts are ordered from oldest to newest. Click here to change order.

Message
I am carrying out repairs and alterations in readiness for BSS certificate but many other boat owners in and around the marina where I moor insist the requirement has been delayed because the 'Bill' has been blocked.
I have contacted the Broads Authority who have told me the BSS is covered by byelaws which are completely separate from the 'Bill' and that these byelaws are "currently on course for phased introduction from 1st April 2007".
Can someone tell me who is correct please (I suppose I should believe the BA but......)
Tell a Friend Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this Comment Reply Reply with quote
You should believe the BA.

Phil
Tell a Friend Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this Comment Reply Reply with quote
As Phil says, 'You should believe the BA'.

Good advice but there is an understandable degree of confusion about the whole issue, not least whether it will actually become law. Being 'on course' is one thing, but it also suggests that it is not yet definate. There may yet be stumbling blocks.

That aside the requirements are basically sound and reasonable, worth working towards anyway.
Tell a Friend Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this Comment Reply Reply with quote
Thanks for your comments and yes, I agree the safety certificate is not such a bad thing and am quite happily preparing my boats for it.

I was just hoping to clear the shadow of doubt and end the constant debates in the marina about whether it will be this year, next year, sometime ....

I see you too picked up on the phrase 'currently on course' used by the BA, which frustrated me as it is not a positive answer and simply fuels the debate and suggests that maybe the byelaws cannot be enforced yet.

Alan
Tell a Friend Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this Comment Reply Reply with quote
To be fair to the BA, they are dependent on central government departments agreeing / approving their byelaws. Central government is not good at working to other people's timescales and deadlines. That may be one argument for the move to (properly consulted and arbitrated) General Directions under the Private Bill.

Phil
Tell a Friend Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this Comment Reply Reply with quote
The simplest solution would surely be to not publish dated proposals to enforce, or indeed try to enforce any laws and regulations, until the powers to do so have actually been granted!
Tell a Friend Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this Comment Reply Reply with quote
Philip Ollier wrote:
To be fair to the BA, they are dependent on central government departments agreeing / approving their byelaws. Central government is not good at working to other people's timescales and deadlines.
Phil


Then Phil, to be fair to central Government departments, it was up to the BA to make their submissions in a timely manner.

In just a few short weeks from now the first wave of boats should be required to comply with BSS certification. But without any legal obligation at this late stage, can you blame boat owners for holding back from costly conversions and testing?

Yes, I know that most (but not all) boat owners have been individually warned about their date for compliance. But they were warned to comply with something which didn’t exist and even now isn’t set in legal stone.

If the byelaws are introduced before 1st April it will be a very much an eleventh hour stroke of good fortune for the BA. If that kind of timing is 'on schedule' then the schedule is grossly unfair to boat owners and testing stations - if it is to be enforced to the letter.

I hope that no toll licence is refused for any boat which couldn't obtain a testing station appointment having applied for one only when an enforceable requirement existed.

I think I am correct in saying that the BA has already expressed an intention to exercise discretion in the early stages of BSS at least.

That would seem fair. It might also avoid an unnecessary shortfall in the navigation revenue.

Grunts.
Tell a Friend Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this Comment Reply Reply with quote
I emailed my initial enquiry about the BSS requirement to BA on 9 February and just 36 minutes later received the reply stating that the bye-laws were 'currently on course' and that I would therefore require a valid BSS certificate by the 1 April 2007.

I emailed back on the 17 February asking for clarification of the phrase 'currently on course' and asked for confirmation that the bye-laws had already, or would receive the approval of the Secretary of State for Transport and be enforceable by 1 April 2007. Six days later and I am still waiting for a reply.

Alan
Tell a Friend Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this Comment Reply Reply with quote
The absence of that reply is probably the most factually accurate indication of the current position you're likely to get.

Tell a Friend Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this Comment Reply Reply with quote
In case anyone wasn't aware, there's a BA press release kicking around which declares that the Department for Transport has rubber stamped the BSS byelaws.

GF
Tell a Friend Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this Comment Reply Reply with quote
email received today (16th March) from BA states:
"...on 15 March 2007 we received notification that The Broads Authority (Boat Safety Standards) Byelaws 2006 have been approved by the Secretary of State"
Tell a Friend Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this Comment Reply Reply with quote
If BSS can be passed into law by the means of a byelaw, why are BA wasting hundreds of thousands of pounds on the Broads Bill.

Couple of bylaws should have done the trick

Job done
Tell a Friend Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this Comment Reply Reply with quote
The wording of the Bill, if passed, heaven forbid, allows the terms of the BSS to be varied. The wording of the Bylaw, if I understand it correctly, do not.

Personally not impressed but I can see the logic of the use of bye-laws whilst waiting for the Bill that might never come..
Tell a Friend Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this Comment Reply Reply with quote
Posted on the lite side:-

Broads Authority Press Release - Government confirms Boat Safety byelaws

Boat safety byelaws have been confirmed by the Department of Transport in time for the Broads Authority to introduce the National Boat Safety Scheme (BSS) from April 1st

For over ten years the Broads Authority has been seeking the necessary powers to introduce this national scheme, which has been in operation on the canals for a long time. Since 2005 the Authority has been encouraging boat owners to have a boat safety examination and undertake the necessary work to make their boats safe but it is only now that it can require boats to comply with the requirements of the BSS.

The introduction of the scheme is part of a wider programme by the Authority to improve safety for those who boat on the Broads. Compulsory third party insurance and licensing for hire boats will follow when the Bill, currently before Parliament, comes into force.

The BSS is a four yearly “MOT type” test for boats with engines, cooking, heating, lighting, refrigerating and other domestic appliances. They now need a to comply with the scheme in order to navigate the Broads. The test, by specialist examiners, aims to reduce the risk of fire, explosions and pollution. If a boat fails an examination advice is offered and work may need to be undertaken at a boatyard, before a compliance certificate is issued.


The scheme does not apply to open boats propelled solely by outboard motors and not fitted with any other appliances or systems, although the skipper must still comply with the requirements for the safe use and storage of the fuel and the safe condition of the fuel system.

Around 25 examiners cover the Broads but their fees vary so boat owners are advised to shop around for quotes. Mike Evans, Chairman of the Norfolk and Suffolk Boating Association said in response to the news: "We (NSBA) encourage all boat owners to comply with the Broads Authority's requirements for Boat Safety Scheme certification as we believe they are in the best interests of everyone's safety"

The Boat Safety Scheme is being introduced in three phases. From April 1st this year the Broads’ largest motor craft (hire craft over 30 sq metres and private motor craft of 21 sq metres and above, also private sailing craft of 21 sq meters and above with engines over 10hp) will need to be covered by BSS certificates.

Many boats already comply with the requirements and have BSS certificates and the owners are asked to send copies to the Broads Authority so their records can be kept up to date.

From April 1st 2008 the scheme will apply to all remaining hire craft and private motor craft of

11 sq metres and above and from April 1st 2009 to all remaining private motor craft and all private sailing craft.

To help ease the transition for boat owners Rob McLean, of the BSS will be at the Broads Authority offices at 18 Colegate, Norwich on March 26th and April 30th to give free advice and guidance on the BSS requirements and examinations.

and (from whom?):-

Also from the BA news release with reference to RoyA’s point.
‘Broads Authority navigation rangers and Broadsbeat police officers are undergoing training so they can carry out safety checks on boats. They will be carried out randomly on boats on short visits to the Broads which don’t carry a Boat Safety Certificate and any other vessel on the navigation where there is reason to believe that the systems on the vessel could be a danger to others.’
My colleague is delivering that training next week. I did the introductory session a few days ago. The aim is to ensure that the people involved will be able to recognise a boat presenting an immediate hazard that could endanger other people and property nearby.
Briefly, amongst other matters it will be covering petrol leaks, gas leaks, the use of ‘gas sniffers’, etc. The checks should only take a few minutes. The aim will not be to deliver a full BSS examination.
The protocols that cover which boats are chosen and what actions are taken if a ‘hazardous’ craft is found are the Authority’s responsibilities and not the BSS’. However, the concept will be to make the immediate situation safe, for example, by asking the owner to disconnect the gas and by placing a quarantine area around the boat and well ventilating the craft.
This is just the overview, but I hope it gives a general idea.
Further advice
I, or a colleague, will also be at the Norfolk Boat Jumble on April 1st. If you are going, do come and say hello or bring any concerns you may have. If you have a specific question, a photo might help.
Kind regards
Rob@BSS Office

Go boating - Stay safe


Am I alone in finding the second part, by "Rob", somewhat threatening and officious? It boils down to "if we don't like the look of you, we'll make life difficult for you". Those who fought the more draconian Directions in the Bill seem to have been right.
Tell a Friend Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this Comment Reply Reply with quote
Indeed Mardler, but it’s long overdue. Private boaters of the Broads have long shown themselves as irresponsible pilots of floating bombs and they need to be knocked into line. Thankfully the Blessed Audacity are now in a position to take the bull by the horns, or the ewe by the hocks as may be their individual preference.

OK. I’m playing with the issue. I’ve no problem with the BSS or its administrators, but I did see a bit on the lite side regarding the rejection of a glass fuel sediment bowl in favour of an aluminium version. I’ve no clue as to the tester’s reasoning. Liquid diesel certainly isn’t a fire risk so I imagine the tester must have been thinking of a pollution risk.

So how is a thick and robust glass bowl less secure than a soft aluminium one? Sure beats the sediment outa me. These bowls are secured by tensile compression – i.e. a single bolt running up through the middle of a cylinder. The bolt would shear or strip its thread long before the glass complained, but an aluminium pot could well buckle or collapse when over tightened in typical Norfolk style.

Apart from the positive advantage of being able to see any collected sediment or water deposits inside, that’s why proper engineers specified glass ones. I don’t know of any diesel engine that doesn’t have a glass sediment bowl of some description.

I guess the boat owner submitted so that he could get his certificate. If so I hope he kept the glass bowl and replaced it after the test. He really should be contesting the point in my view, either that or campaigning VOSA to have every diesel car, van, truck and bus failed at test.

Come to think of it, an internet forum might be a good place to compare notes on the idiosyncrasies of individual testing stations.

Peasey.
Tell a Friend Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this Comment Reply Reply with quote
Reply Page: 1, 2
View our Terms of Use Policy
Change to:

© Copyright NorfolkBroads.com 2006 - 2010, The East of England's Business Directory.


hosted by NorfolkBroads.com | designed by innershed