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Tombraider 10th Oct '09 21:37	Any questions and I will willingly answer them in truth.
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Tombraider
10th Oct '09 21:35

Bermudan Triangle wrote:
Tree Hugger wrote:
all of us should treat it as a hazard to navigation and excercise caution. The proof is on the page.

Byelaws apart, that's the kind of basic common sense that should prevail when all of us exercise our overwhelming duty to avoid a collision. From my first view of the photograph I was troubled that the boat should have appeared to have attempted to pass so close to the ferry, where the clearance over the chains is more likely to be limited. Analysis of such an incident is rarely simple and might be more likely to conclude a ratio of shared blame. So it probably isn't worth bothering, which means that we will never know why a collision occurred when the existing rules of the river are adequate to prevent it.

BT

I have explained exactly what happened in my previous post.

" Analysis of such an incident is rarely simple and might be more likely to conclude a ratio of shared blame. "

Probably the most sensible post on here.

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Tombraider
10th Oct '09 21:32

Tree Hugger wrote:
To obviate the need for an expensive investigation, the Bear has discovered just how Raisena ended up chained to the ferry.

A Ferryman launched his who has the right of way? polemic on the Lightside, where on two posts he received some pretty unequivacable support from a mystery expert who styles herself Jenny Morgan.

To wit: I don't agree that the ferry should just set off and rely on other folk avoiding him but he is a commercial vessel, it beholds us all not to hinder him as he goes about his business. I suppose, to a degree, he has to be like a bus and push his way in front of oncoming vessels otherwise he'd be moored up for most of the day!!

So there you have it Martin.
You weren't hit by a chain ferry.
You were run down by a bus.

Easy mistake.

I didn't take Jenny Morgan's remarks as gospel. She is a he actually.
There were two witnesses on the ferry and another 30 odd on the north bank. They all saw exactly what happened.

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Tombraider
10th Oct '09 21:29

Gruntfuttock wrote:
Wasn't Charon a hearse ferry?

I think those using Reedham are expected to remain alive long enough to pay the ferryman, which we all know shouldn't be done until you reach the other side. Sorry, I'm really no follower of Celtic vocalists with a penchant for domestic disputes. Shouldn't have brought it up.

Oh cripes. The matter of the ferry setting off has been a topic of discussion in a lightweight place recently. I'm sorry not to provide a link but mortality takes a precedent over that forum's loading speed so you'll have to find it yourselves. Memory tells me that there were submissions that appeared to come from a Reedham ferryman.

None of us should seek to make any judgement based on one picture, but it's difficult to see how negligence can't have played a substantial part in this extremely sad incident. I hope that Raisena is as intact as can be expected, in the same way that I hope one day someone will reinstate and cherish her lamented originality.

GF

As soon as it freed itself it carried on racing.

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Tombraider 10th Oct '09 21:25	peter waller wrote: Coincidentally that particular ferryman has been noticeably absent from The Sun of Broads fora! I only went on there to explain what was happening to the wood on the landing stages.I also tried to establish who has right of way.
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Tombraider 10th Oct '09 21:22	" In regard to Raisena-Gate, was the ferry actually underway?" Yes it was.
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Tombraider 10th Oct '09 21:17	I would like to add.There was no scrutineer on the ferry and no radio was issued.
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Tombraider
10th Oct '09 21:09

I was the ferryman at the time.A few facts wouldn't go amiss.I was on the southside when the Raisena appeared at the bend from the Reedham end.I started across to the north bank.As the Raisena proceeded towards the ferry , it picked up speed and was sailing close to the south bank, heading for the rear of me.When it was about 100yds away from the ferry it turned sharply to it's right and headed for the north bank, then sharply turned left and ended up in the postion in the picture, which was about halfway across the river.The vice-chairman of the Broads Authority, Mr Mallet, spoke to me later on the day and said that as I had already started off, the ferry had right of way.
Mr Archer gets all the money from the ferry, not the ferryman.We just get an hourly wage.

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peter waller 26th Sep '09 20:23	As a matter of interest has anyone reported an offence?
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Old Frank
26th Sep '09 08:59

The ferry set off when Raisena was a short distance way. The was no meaningful collision between Raisena and the ferry - she just caught her keel on the chain and then slipped so the rudder was restraining her on the chain. Raisena was on a starboard beam reach with no need to tack - so her course was about as predictable as it could be.

Any kind of legislation should be clear - and to me Byelaw 26 seems pretty straightforward. The ferry should have kept clear. Broads Byelaws are not all so plain - they're badly fudged over passenger vessels.

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peter waller
24th Sep '09 16:40

I suspect that the present rules for Broadland chain ferries were written when the Norwich river was host to numerous coasters and the odd trading wherry. Asking a coaster to loose steerage whilst waiting for the Reedham Ferry would have been a nonsense!

No doubt that the Ferry is crossing the fairway, and in doing so is bound to give way, but as a chain ferry it is constrained in what avoiding action it can take once under way.

Granted that the ferry should not pull out in front of an oncoming vessel, but surely it is not unreasonable to allow the ferry to complete its journey once started?

In regard to Raisena-Gate, was the ferry actually underway?

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Poppy
24th Sep '09 07:50

Apparently not a problem unique to the Broads.

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214551

Giving Way to Ferries, advice please

"you're safe if you can see their rivets. Sheer away when you can read the name of the foundry on the rivet heads. "

"I'm not familiar with ASI. Something to do with Artificial Insemination is it? In which case you only need to worry if you spot one of the ferry crew putting on long rubber gloves."

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peter waller
23rd Sep '09 18:18

Tree, have you ever handled the ferry at Reedham? No, nor have I, but whilst I expect stopping is pretty instant I doubt that dropping the chains is, and even once dropped in mid stream I suspect the tide would carry the barge downstream and thus take up the slack, lifting the chains again. I suspect, that once committed, the ferry has little option but to continue its journey. Personally I would sooner go about than argue with it! Chains, unlike rails, are not fixed!

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Tree Hugger
23rd Sep '09 09:49

Still in denial Peter.
Still missing the point.

Describing a chain ferry as having restricted powers of manouvre, is like saying a train can't corner as well as a car.
It doesn't have to. It's on rails. So is a chain ferry.
Which has options. It can start and stop almost immediately. Likewise reverse. And tidal effects are minimal. It doesn't navigate in the usual sense. It's a floating bridge.

Vessels navigating don't always have those options, nor the degree of control. It's the commonsense reasoning that usually defines them as stand-on vessels, and why a chain ferry is not.

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peter waller 23rd Sep '09 08:20	The BA bylaws also state that the master of a sailing craft shall keep clear of a vessel restricted in its ability to manouvre. And I suspect that the Reedham Ferry is the most restricted vessel on the Broads!
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