Or I could simply run out of cash, I suppose?

Still the project spend is still only £2.8K so far, against £7.5k which was the average of quotes for fitting a Yanmah 10G diesel with hydraulics in Privateer. Plus I would have lost a deal of internal space.

I suppose that's not bad when you think that everything is to one-off and at custom-built cost.

Can I take this right back to the start of the thread and the idea of a diesel/electric hybrid motor boat? I'm not going to touch on the installation of electrical power in an otherwise delightful Broads sailing cruiser, how you chose to vandalise your own boat is your business!

If the whole reason for wanting to investigate the dual energy idea is fuel cost, then I'm afraid this type of hybrid is of no help. You simply can't harness energy for free, unless you're planning to charge the electric motor's batteries by solar power, the wind, or by capturing the energy from the passing tide flow when the boat is moored.

If using the diesel engine to charge the batteries, then the additional load imposed on the heavy-oil engine will consume more energy (i.e. fuel oil) than you would gain in terms of stored electrical energy. You can't expect to break even, because there are additional inefficiencies introduced such as bearing drag and the internal resistance of the batteries and cables.

TH said: Most of us accept that diesel cruisers produce one thing in excess (apart from noise and fumes) and that's electricity; most of which goes to waste except on short trips

Maybe many would assume so, but it's not true. Internal combustion engines don't produce an excess of electrical power, their charging systems are regulated to provide only what is demanded by consumption. None of the generated electrical power is free, it all consumes fuel because it is generated by converting physical load into electricity, overcoming the physical load consumes fuel. Other than the drag and resistance of moving parts and bearings, most of the load is magnetic - I'm sure we've all been impressed by the physical load experienced when trying to pass pole-to-pole magnets in close proximity.

Sit in your car with the engine at tickover. Keep your eye on the tachometer needle and your ear to the engine as you flick-on the headlamps and heated rear window at the same moment. You'll hear the alternator start to labour and you'll see the engine speed drop - that's entirely due to the generator load. The average car's (and boat's) generator presents more than five-times this load when charging a single battery at maximum rate. Know anyone with a boat which eats alternator belts with monotonous frequency? Now you know why - the duration of the maximum load being imposed on the belt through having to charge domestic batteries is many times more than the belt was designed to handle. Anyone who has installed a regulator controller to a boat with a bank of domestic batteries will be only too familiar with this symptom.

So how can the hybrid theory work in cars? Well, in truth it doesn't work at all well in terms of reducing oil dependency. Hybrid cars achieve three marketable goals:-

1. They reduce the output of fumes in traffic congested locations.
(But they produce more fumes when charging, so really they just move the smog from the city to the country).

2. They can use a proportion of the kinetic energy produced by gravity on the vehicle when freewheeling downhill.
(My expectation is that the 'free' battery charging made possible by freewheeling down hills is more than consumed by the additional fuel burned when lugging the extra weight up the other side of the hill).

3. They provide a greener public image to owners who secretly feel guilty about their gas guzzling muscle car which they keep hidden from view most of the time.

If you drive your technologically modern internal combustion engine as slowly, powerlessly and infrequently as the 'green' alternative would carry you, then generally your hoof print will be no bigger. The exceptional advantage is perhaps with 'biofuel', but we would need another planet on which to grow it, and solar powered space transport to deliver it.

I don't doubt that we are all aware that the primary use for the huge solar panels on the Ra-Ra-Raft is to keep the rain off the passengers? I have to confess that I don't know the true ratio of solar-to-fossil energy consumed by Die Flottenfloss, but it does spend many hours plugged into the fossil fuelled national grid. I also feel that we should start to consider the additional manufacture of toxic heavy metals and acid which have limited life and only partial recylability - a process powered by fossil fuel.

I'm very far from being a convert.

Greenfuttock.

Having sponsored a polemic Grunts, I can't complain when you bring it on.

There will now be a short pause whilst I research all the rebuttals to your detailed post. Don't hold breath.

No need to apologise Rads. It's all perspective.

Wrong device.

Us experts in natural language science and synthetic speech engines call them 'concatenation converters'.


He said smugly.


www.featurespeak.com

has the post has been "Gruntalized "or is it that the bear has been collecting more silverware for the tree house !!

its also intresting to hear other's opinions on what is considered vandlalism ,and have often thought that seeing a loverly classic yacht with a noisey lump of evil necessity hanging off its back puffing away is a bit like seeing a Bently with a roof rack attached or even worse a bald old man driving a new toyota mx5 with the roof down on a cold day looking rather silly

so granted whilst it's not true Hybrid its more a step in the right direction in many ways and as battery technology advance's then who knows !!

"he says tapping his fingers up and down waiting for more input"

Men't to say mr2 huggsy but it's obvious that iam not as switched on as you but then again iam not old enough to have a sportscar yet hybrid or not


anyway put down the key's to the toyazda mr-x-5-4 -turbo whatever and give us an update on these tank batterys you've got

you know ......things like range and charging times

as ive only been waiting two weeks now

Very impressive- an engineer's wetdream and if you are called a vandal just think Banksy

even though its your bankroll and its purpose is to suit i cant help wondering how much engineering it would take to be fitted to a standard river cruiser

by know means am i an engineer so forgive my ignorance but would it be possible as an add on to incorperate a 24 volt alternator by adding more belts and pulleys to a diesel engine with a 12volt system already in place as a seperate and sole charging system!!

the thought of silent cruising is bliss even if limited and if anyone cannot see the benefit then go try an electric dayboat one afternoon ,but thats only me being selfish

good luck for saturday "sir" i hope it go's well